Questions and Answers

Welcome to our Q and A which is in response to the numerous questions we receive on a daily basis.  Some of these inquiries result in fascinating and helpful information that we think will be interesting to others.

These are only a few select samplings of what we receive.  Please note that as much as we would like to do so, we can't begin to post each and every inquiry or answer each and every question.  Thanks for your understanding.  Hope you find this helpful.

Notice

All information and pictures are protected under our copyright notice and may not be reproduced, copied, or used by others without our prior permission.

By your submission, you are granting us permission to post and publish your questions, information, and pictures should we so choose and as we so choose, whether  in this format or other published formats by Sharon Dickinson, unless you state otherwise at the time of your submission.  We protect your privacy by using your initials and general location only.  It is always interesting to know from what part of the world the questions have originated.  We enjoy hearing from all four corners of the earth.

Q:  I have read your pages looking for the maker of the china I have inherited from my mother and father.  They were in Germany in the early 1950's.  My father was in the Army at the time.  The towns were still wore torn and ravaged by years of war.  My mother befriended a young woman, Gertty, who was able to get my mother a set of beautiful Rosenthal Cobalt Blue china.  I have the complete coffee set.   I'm curious about any more history on them.  B.G. in State College, Pennsylvania.

A:  Thanks for your very interesting e-mail and beautiful pictures.  The molds of your dishes, called Pompadour, are certainly Rosenthal and just like ones we had at one time, but in a different color.  What is puzzling to me is the lack of the Rosenthal mark on them.  I'm thinking that perhaps a decorating studio did the finished product, using Rosenthal blanks and the starburst mark might be their mark.

(In the event anyone out there recognizes the pattern and/or knows of a resource for replacement pieces, please see our new "Requests" link for contacting KSH directly.)

Q:  I am trying to find 12 replacement saucers for this pattern.  Do you know the name of the pattern and/or where I might find the saucers?  The set originally belonged to my grandmother who went on a shopping trip from her home in Michigan to New York City.  That was sometime prior to 1935.  She purchased the set brand new at that time.  She passed them to my mother quite early on, and I was raised with them at every holiday party and event you can imagine.  They are all beautiful.  All of them ornate.  I am heartbroken that all 12 saucers have been broken.  Can you help?  KSH of Santa Barbara, California

A:  Your dishes are beautiful, and your related family story is so very interesting.  As you know through our e-mails, we have both done exhaustive searches and find nothing.  From the marks, your grandmother no doubt purchased the dishes from Ovington Bros., a large retailer on Fifth Avenue in New York City.  They no doubt special ordered them from the Aynsley factory in Longton, England.  This Aynsley factory mark dates at least to the 1920's.  Your family information serves as good documentation of this beautiful Aynsley pattern (name unknown), the Aynsley mark of the 1920's, and this Ovington mark of pre-1935.  Thanks for sharing your story and pictures.   Perhaps through this posting someone will be able to help with the search.

Q:  I have this beautiful large plate by O&E.G. Royal Austria Rose Dubarry.   The story is that an elderly German neighbor gave this to my great grandmother for being a good friend.  I'm curious to know more about it, especially the pattern.  PT in Ninilchik, Alaska, USA

A:  The mark on your beautiful Rose Dubarry plate is a factory mark for the brothers, Oscar & Edgar Gutherz, in business 1898-1918 in the city of Altrohlau in what is now the Czech Republic (see **** below for more interesting Czech history).   With the end of World War I in 1918, the Gutherz brothers sold out to a large conglomerate known as EPIAG  (Source:  Bohemian Decorated Porcelain by Dr. James Henderson, p. 43).

During the years the Gutherz brothers were in business, they manufactured the porcelain and also decorated much of  it.  Royal Austria was apparently a product line name and Rose Dubarrry a pattern name.  According to Dr. Henderson, page 42, Rose Dubarry was one of the several pattern names used by Gutherz for their own inside-the-factory decoration.  I'm glad you were able to find a signature on your plate.  Fann is one of the known inside-the-factory decorators for Gutherz. 

I had a demicup with the same mark and decoration as your plate.  I am showing it at left just below your plate and mark.  It, too, had a signature (see saucer at left) which appears to be Laporte, another known inside-the-factory decorator for Gutherz.   Apparently both of these pieces were decorated inside the Gutherz factory, though I had originally believed they were both products of outside decorators.  Dr. Henderson's book has enlightened me otherwise.  The Gutherz method of decoration was a combination of transfers with handpainted touches.  According to Dr. Henderson, the result was "hand decorated transfers."

This same green O.&E.G. mark, but without a pattern name was also used as a whiteware mark (example below at far left).  Whiteware is the term for undecorated wares sold for decoration outside the factory, including decoration in America.  In fact, Dr. Henderson's book, page 42, mentions that Gutherz did export whiteware to America and that much of it was "...hand painted by American decorating studios or by individual artists." 

Below left is just such an example of a truly handpainted and signed plate that was most likely the work of an individual American china painter by the name of G. Hancock.  Therefore, there is no doubt this same green mark without a pattern name was used as a whiteware mark for decoration outside the factory, but also used for decoration inside the factory with a pattern name added, as shown on the Rose Dubarry items at far left above.

Thanks for sharing your beautiful Rose Dubarry plate and family story with all of us.  I've enjoyed the research.

****Up until 1918 and before the end of World War I, Altrohlau was in Austria.  In 1918, the end of World War I, Altrohlau, now called Stara Role, became a part of the newly-formed Czechoslovakia.  Altrohlau is the German name for the city; Stara Role is the Czech name for it.  In 1993, after the fall of communism, Czechoslovakia became the Czech Republic and remains so today.  Altrohlau is famous for its 12 hot springs and spas and is a suburb of the city of Carlsbad (also known as Karlovy Vary).  Both Altrohlau and Carlsbad are in the western region of the Czech Republic known as Bohemia.  The names Bohemia and Czech are interchangeble.  The entire region is in the Ore Mountains which is the home of many Kaolin mines.  Kaolin is an essential ingredient for the manufacturing of hard paste porcelain.  Because of the Kaolin, there are many fine porcelain factories in the region.   (My primary source for this interesting information is Sonia B., a native of the region and whose grandmother and aunt worked in some of the factories in years past.)

Q:  My grandfather was a judge at the Nuremburg trials (trial of the Nazi judges) in Germany.  He was also chief justice of the supreme court of Oregon, which probably helped make him a candidate.  Some time ago, there was a movie titled "Judgment at Nuremburg" in which Spencer Tracy played my grandfather.  The movie was a fictionalized version of the trials, so all the names were changed.  I have a copy of the book based on the movie with my grandfather's signature.

During the time they were in Nuremburg for the trials, my grandmother had time to shop.  She brought back a set of dishes for my brother and me.  Upon close inspection, my guess is that the decorations are decals rather than hand painted.  They are "signed" Prof. Paul Lothar Muller.  Any thoughts about these items.  Thanks.  JA in Williamstown, Massachusetts, USA

A:  This is all so very interesting, especially about your grandfather having been a judge at the Nuremburg trials.  Thank you for sharing your story and the pictures of your dishes.  You are most likely correct they are decals.  It's not unusual for the works of artists and their signatures to be reproduced on porcelain pieces by way of decals.  I've done some searching on Paul Muller.  He is a listed German artist who lived 1869-1956.  I've actually found some of his oil paintings of these same little characters in various settings that have sold at auction.  One oil painting sold for $911 on June 14, 2008, in Rudolstadt, Germany.  I have no other information on him.  It should be noted that the prices realized for his original oil paintings have no bearing whatsoever on what dishes with his reproduced work would or would not bring.

The Thomas mark is the factory mark for the F. Thomas Marktredwitz Porcelain Factory of Marktredwitz, Bavaria, Germany.  You probably already know that the U. S. Zone part of the mark dates the pieces to the years 1945-49 when Bavaria Germany was occupied by the U. S. Military.   In searching about the Nuremburg trials, I learned they were held in 1948 "in an American court inside the occupied zone of Germany."   The city of Nuremburg is located inside the area of Bavaria, the 1945-49 U. S. Occupied Zone.

In summary, your set was manufactured sometime between 1945 and probably 1947.  Assuming your grandmother didn't travel outside Nuremberg to shop, she no doubt purchased it brand new in a Nuremburg shop in 1948.

They represent an important and interesting part of your family legacy.

Thanks for allowing me to share your interesting story with others.

Q:  I really enjoyed your site and the extensive research you've done on the marks.  I have one that really puzzles me.....I was wondering if you can tell me anything about the possible year or anything about the gold mark.  I have always liked this plate, but have never been able to pinpoint when it was made or by whom.   I think by reading your site it was quite possibly made by Christopher Schumann of Schumann & Schreider.  Can you help??  SR in Santa Fe, Texas, USA

A:  The green mark is a factory mark for Schumann & Schreider in Schwarzenhammer, Germany.  The factory was founded in 1905 by Christopher Schumann and his father-in-law, Karl Schreider.  The gold mark remains a puzzle.  It may be a decorating mark, but I haven't found it in any of the many reference books I have.  I've added it to my table of fine porcelain marks in the "Unidentified" section.

 The date of your plate is c.1930's.  Thanks for writing.

 If anyone knows this Porzellan Imperial Germany mark, please e-mail.

Q:  I was wondering what you can tell me about this mark.  My grandmother recently gave me her chocolate set which is over 100 years old.   She received the set from her aunt, but doesn't know when or where her aunt got it.  I have been unable to find anything similar to the mark until I found your website.  If you could be of any help, I would greatly appreciate it!!  B.S. in Yankton, South Dakota, USA

A:  From what I finally found in a book of marks from Germany, that particular mark with only the word Bavaria is shown as c.1903-1930.*  So, your set could very well be over 100 years old as of 2003.  It is from the Porcelain Factory Tirschenreuth in Tirschenreuth, Bavaria, Germany.*

*(Source: Keramik-Marken Lexikon, 1885-1935, by Dieter Zuhlsdorff, page 271)

It is handpainted as indicated in the mark.  From that, I assume it was decorated in the factory's own studio.  Though artist signed, I can't quite make out the name.  The mark is also hard to read, but it says PT Bavaria, Handpainted Bavarian Porcelain.

Thanks for sharing your pictures and family story.

Q:  I recently purchased this set at an auction in Rock Springs, Wyoming.  I have found countless Rosenthal sites and can't gather any information.  There is a small piece of paper with limited writing which says this was a wedding gift on September 1, 1892.  It also states they are a beer pitcher and four mugs.  Do you have any knowledge about this set?  M. W. in Wyoming, USA

A:  You have a very beautiful set and an excellent deal at the price you stated privately.  The notes on the pieces are recent, so the information was obviously passed down -- I was so hoping to have seen some very, very old notes and writing.  Based on the mark, the set does not go back to 1892 unless the reference books are wrong.  Every book of marks that I've searched puts this particular mark as no older than 1907 and apparently in use until the 1930's.

The Rosenthale mark with the e at the end is a whiteware mark for Rosenthal, which means your set is most likely hand painted.  In fact, from studying the pictures, I am quite certain it is hand painted and most likely the work of an American china painter.  The pieces are, however, unsigned since you have determined there is no signature present on any of them.

Your set is referred to as a Tankard Set.  Webster's defines tankard as a tall drinking vessel, the assumption being on my part that it can be used for any beverage of choice -- lemonade, tea, etc.  Based on the Art Nouveau style of the flowers and leaves, I think it is quite possible that the set might have been decorated around 1910 or possibly into the 1920's.

My sources for the dating of the mark include:

(1) New and Revised Edition of Directory of European Porcelain by Danckert, pages 12 and 597.

(2) Keramik-Marken Lexikon by Dieter Zuhlsdorff, page 263.

Thanks for sharing your information.

Q:  Could you please help me?  I received four porcelain plates as a gift several years ago, and I tried to find where they are from (factory, country, years, etc.).  I asked many people and checked many books about porcelain marks and still do not have the answer.  I truly appreciate your time.  Thank you very much.  Svetlana and Troy, Michigan, USA

A:  I cannot find your mark anywhere, and I've consulted several good books.   It is similar to the Davenport marks, a ceramic factory in Longport, England, 1793-1882 (Source:  Directory of European Porcelain by Danckert, page 234).  The Davenport marks, however, do not include the J.T.P., so this mark still remains a mystery. 

Also similar to marks by Porsgrund Porcelain Factory of Porsgrunn, Norway, but still not the same.

 I'm posting your pictures here and requesting anyone out there who might recognize it to please e-mail me, in which case I will update this posting.  Thanks for writing.

Q:  I ran across this complete and unblemished chocolate pot with six cups and saucers from my mother's estate.  The mark is Habsburg China, M. Z. Austria, and a cursive GB 24.   The set has been packed away forever as far as I know, and I believe it originally belonged to my great Aunt Clara.   Can you tell me anything else about it?    SS in Davenport, Iowa, USA

A:  I have been studying your pictures and mark and had almost given up on finding the mark.  I finally found it, along with some very interesting information, in a great book called Bohemian Decorated Porcelain by Dr. James Henderson, pages 82, 83.   It's rather complicated and has been educational for me.  Here is the breakdown as best I can interpret what I found.

The mark is for Burley & Tyrrell (the B T in your mark) of Chicago who were wholesale and retail distributors of Bohemian porcelain.  They were brothers-in-law in business together (and later with a nephew) and were known by that name, Burley & Tyrrell, in 1871 following the Chicago fire.  They started importing and distributing Bohemain porcelain around 1880 and eventually operated a decorating studio above their salesroom in Chicago.  The mark on your chocolate set was the only mark used by them and was used c.1890-1919.

In 1919, Burley & Tyrrell was bought out by a competitor.  In the meantime, a nephew, Frank Burley, had come into the picture in 1883 whereby another name was created, Burley & Co. (the Co. part of the mark on your set).  Burley & Co. was known to have been retailers as well as china decorators from 1885 to 1931 when they closed.  Apparently the Burley & Co. part of the business continued with the decorating studio even though the Burley & Tyrrell branch was sold in 1919.

Hapsburg China (as on your set) was the name used for distributing china produced by the Moritz Zdekauer factory (the MZ Austria mark on your set). 

Here's what I believe about your chocolate set: 

I believe the undecorated pieces (whiteware) were produced by Moritz Zdekauer and imported to Chicago by Burley & Tyrrell prior to 1919 (when they were bought out), decorated in 1924 by Burley & Co. (the studio that continued on until 1931), and eventually distributed under the Hapsburg China name.

 I believe the GB and the number 24 on the bottom of your set is a signature and a date.  The GB could be a Burley -- a Burley family member who worked in the decorating studio and decorated this set in 1924.  Remember, the decorating studio didn't close until 1931.  Undecorated whiteware can linger around for years before anyone gets around to decorating them. 

Back to the GB, there is an Arthur Gilman Burley in that family history -- GB could have been a descendant named Gilman Burley after his ancestor.  This is just my speculation, but seems logical.  I'm wondering if your Great Aunt Clara or any of your family members lived in the Chicago area since that is where the set originated.

In subsequent e-mails with you, you have confirmed that you believe your Great Aunt Clara most likely purchased it in the 1920's when she was in her twenties and could have easily made trips to Chicago related to her many activities as an advocate for women's rights.  You also shared that she was a school teacher and a homemaker and took great pride in her house and garden.  She obviously had wonderful taste to have purchased this beautiful chocolate set.  Thanks so much for sharing.

Q:  I have inherited some plates and am interested in the history of them.  They have a handpainted border of red and blue flowers and in the center are rabbit families.  Some have a frog with the rabbits.  Could you tell me anything about them.  They do all have crazing, and I think they are quite old.  They came from a great aunt to me, and to her from an aunt as far as I know.  I believe the plates came from New England, as my aunt lived in Maine, Massachusetts, and New York.   DB, Mt. Vernon, Ohio, USA

A:  I have no idea what the unusual blue mark is, but I agree with you that they are quite old and possibly very special.  In the picture of the backside with the mark, I can see the consistent crazing all over, which sometimes is a sign of a very old age.  The fact that they are handpainted, have the beautiful cobalt blue, and the cute rabbits, all contribute to their desirability. 

I'm posting this with the hope that someone out there might recognize the mark and even the plates.  If so, please e-mail us with any information you might have, and I'll update this accordingly with proper credit to the contributor.

Update:  April 3, 2009

Here is a link that identifies this as transfer tableware known as "Rabbit Ware":

Green Castle Museum

As you will read on the Green Castle website, Rabbit Ware is costly and difficult to find.  As for the porcelain factory that produced it, that is not mentioned, so the porcelain mark continues to be unidentified.

Q:  I have enjoyed consulting your website and now I am asking if you can identify this porcelain butter dish which is unmarked.  RS Prussia and Limoges books have been consulted without success.  Thank you.  CB in Canaan, New Hampshire, USA

A:  I keep going back and looking at the pictures of your beautiful butter dish, but just can't identify it at the moment.  You've already consulted the same books that I would have.  With your permission, I am posting it here as an unidentified item with the hope that someone else might be able to identify it and send me an e-mail.  If so, I'll update this posting accordingly.  Thanks for writing.

Q:  I have this plate that I cannot trace.  The portrait is of Madam Parabere, and it appears to be hand painted.   The plate came from my deceased aunt and it was in a box with other china.  She did travel extensively in the 1960's.  It may have belonged to her husband's family, but I'm not sure.  Any information you can offer is welcome.  M.A. in Williamstown, Massachusetts

A:  As you have already stated, the portrait is that of Madam de Parabere.  Her name is so inscribed on the back of the plate.  The gold used for her name seems to match the gold of the as yet unidentified mark of the "Paris Gold Knight."  The blue circled mark says Sevres 1844, and appears to be a genuine Sevres mark.  I believe this plate left the Sevres factory as an undecorated whiteware piece and was decorated later in the "Sevres Style."  The red mark says Chateau Des Tuileries and is most likely that of a Limoges or Paris decorator. (A similar mark is shown on page 395 of Gaston's Third Edition Limoges book, except it is Chateau De St. Cloud.  It is referred to as an overglaze decorating mark and dated c.1905.)  The as yet unidentified "Gold Knight Paris" mark seems familiar, but haven't been able to find it in any of my books.  Please e-mail if you know.  The final mark is that of the Ovington Brothers who were retailers in New York and Chicago.  The assumption is that the plate was made for them.

Thanks for sharing your plate.  I'll post any updates should anything else surface.  Please do the same.

Q:  Would you have any information regarding some Rosenthale Selb-Bavaria Donatello dessert plates?  When my grandmother and grandfather married in 1937, my grandmother was given the plates by a couple of elderly sisters that lived down the street from her.  The sisters told her they had been in their family for sometime.  The plates now belong to my mother, and she has always been interested in finding out any history on the plates or designer.  My grandparents lived in Saginaw, Michigan.  Thanks.  TS in Baldwin, Wisconsin, USA

A:  It appears that your plates are the work of a china painter by the name of Marie (most likely an American china painter).  Notice her name in the picture you sent of the backside.  You have confirmed through additional e-mails we've exchanged that all of the plates are signed Marie H.  Marie was most likely an ancestor of the sisters who gave the plates to your grandparents in 1937.  The Rosenthale mark (with the e at the end) is the whiteware mark for the Rosenthal factory of Bavaria, Germany.  Rosenthal was one of the major producers of whiteware used for decoration by independent china painters, especially in America.  Donatello refers to the name of the mold (shape/design) of the plates.  What an interesting family history you have connected to the plates.  Thanks for allowing me to share it with others.

Q:  I purchased three pieces of china at an estate sale.  I cannot find the mark.  Your website is just wonderful, and I had hoped I would find this mark so I would know what it is.  The only piece that is marked is the creamer.  The bowl is just lovely, but unmarked.  Any help would be so appreciated.  Thanks.  RP in Asheboro, North Carolina, USA.

A:  I agree that the pieces are very beautiful.  The mark is that of the Johann Seltmann Porcelain Factory of Vohenstrauss, Bavaria, Germany, and is dated c.1901-1932 (Rontgen's, pages 60 and 377).   In looking at your pictures, I believe what you have may be hand painted and probably by an American china painter.  Since only the creamer is marked with a factory mark, it appears that the painter used an assortment of blanks to produce the matching group, only one of which was from the Seltmann factory.  Through additional e-mails, you have confirmed to me that you find no signature.  I have seen several hand painted items that were not signed for whatever reason.  Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Q:  Would you know anything about these pieces?  They have a lamb on the bottom and another mark that appears to have been covered up.  I believe they were made around 1895 for George Eastman of Eastman Kodak fame as a wedding gift for the daughter of a friend.  The Eastman connection comes from the fact that a fellow named George Sage, who was one of the four original investors who put up the initial money to get Eastman started and was very close to Eastman, had a daughter named Alice Sage, who became Alice Sage Cole (the monogram on the plates is ASC).  Alice Sage Cole was my ancestor and this is the story that has been passed down through the family.  The entire set consists of 12 place settings of 6 pieces each (72 pieces total), all pristine having never been used.  Any information would be much appreciated.  Lou Ann in Denver, Colorado

A:  The mark that is covered up is a factory mark for the Silesian Porcelain Factory that produced the undecorated whiteware.  The lamb mark is a decorating mark for Ambrosius Lamm who had a decorating studio in Dresden, Germany, and used that particular mark c.1891-1914, which is compatible with your family history.  It was common practice for some reason for the decorating studios to cover up the factory marks.  The "Dresden Porcelain Studios" book by the Harrans (can be found on Amazon) mentions the Silesian Porcelain Factory as being one of the sources for blank whiteware used by Lamm.  Also in the Harran book are several pages of beautiful items produced by the Lamm studio, including examples of goblets very similar to yours.  What a great treasure you have as well as a nice family connection back to Eastman.  In subsequent e-mails we've had, you've told me these beautiful treasures will not be going back to the attic where they had been stored for years, but will be going into a new china cabinet since you now know what you have!!  Thanks for sharing a part of your family history with the rest of us.

Q:  I have a Bohemia Ceramic Works tea set, gold plated, in original box.  I genuinely don't think it has ever been used.  It has an electric blue background with an artist's impressions of young girls being serenaded by young men.  I would describe it as being in perfect condition.  All six cups are gold plated, and there is no wear on any of the items.  The box is a little worn, but I'm sure I could have that reconditioned if necessary.  What is curious to me is how the BCW logo has been stamped over with a Carlsbad Fine Porcelain logo.  I've had the set for 25 years, and before that it belonged to my grandparents.  It has probably been in the case for the last 50 years.  My grandfather was from Breslau which was in the former Czechoslovakia.  I'm not sure if he got the set through his family line, or if it came through my grandmother's side whose ancestor was an English 1820 settler to South Africa (one of the first big settler groups).  My grandfather was a supreme court judge, and my grandmother was an advocate (in the 1950's) in Pretoria, South Africa -- so they were both well-to-do.  Maybe it was a gift, as my grandmother legally represented the foreign embassies in South Africa.   Can you tell me anything about it?  Donna in South Africa

A:  The set is beautiful.  Rather than a tea set, what you have appears to be a coffee set.  The pattern you have is the Love Story (referring to the figural scenes).  The green Bohemia Ceramics mark is the manufacturing mark of the factory that produced the undecorated wares.  The Carlsbad mark is the decorating mark of Friedrich Simon who had a decorating studio in Carlsbad from 1920-1931.  He was known for decorating whiteware from Bohemia Ceramics.  (Source:  page 56 of Bohemian Porcelain by Henderson).  Therefore, based on the Carlsbad Fine Porcelain mark, your set dates back to c.1920-1931.  It was common practice for the decorating studios to overstamp the factory marks, which is why you see his mark over the Bohemia Ceramics mark. 

You mentioned reconditioning the case -- don't do a thing to it.  A little wear can be a good thing.  Obviously the set has been treasured and protected through the years, and everything should be kept exactly as it is.  Thanks for writing and sharing your pictures and related family history.

Q:  Good day.  We found among my late uncle's estate items a small plate with military emblems and a crest on it and marked on the bottom with two Schumann Bavaria marks.  This might have been given to his regiment by the King (or Prince) of Belgium.  My uncle who was a U. S. Army soldier during World War II and fought in Germany, Normandy, and Belgium.  He was in the 16th Field Artillery Regiment, 3rd Battalion, 3rd Armored Division.  They were recognized by Charles, Prince of Belgium, Regent of the Kingdom, for two famous battles in Belgium and were awarded a citation called the Belgium Fourragere in November 1945.  I think this might have been part of that recognition.  I've already interpreted some of the emblems and am wondering if you might have additional  information.   It's 5 1/4" diameter and my uncle used it for keeping his ring and watch.  Jude in Sedona, Arizona

A:  This is the first one of these to come my way, and I am so pleased to have it.  Thank you for interpreting some of the symbols which I am displaying below.  As to the other symbols, I'm hoping someone out there might recognize these and e-mail me, in which case I'll update this posting.  As for the Schumann connection, it appears that someone, perhaps the American Military, perhaps the Belgian government, commissioned the Schumann factory to make these for each member of your uncle's regiment.  Unless there is some reference to Belgium in the symbols, we can only speculate as to the occasion that generated  this commemorative dish.  It seems logical that Schumann was the chosen factory for this special order.  Carl Schumann II was a great friend of America and of our military, especially during those years just after the end of World War II.  It would not be surprising at all if perhaps he might not have charged for this particular order.  He was very generous, and this could be another example of his generosity.  Thanks for sending these pictures and sharing such an interesting part of your family history.  I'll update this posting if new information surfaces.

Shield mark is whiteware manufacturing mark.

Crown mark is decorating mark.

Shoulder patch for the Army's 3rd Armored Division.  The 9 at the top is the Division Number.  The red represents Field Artillery; the Blue represents Infantry; the Yellow represents Calvary.  In the center is the running track of a tank and a cannon.

Coat of Arms with Lions Heads

E-mail if you can interpret meaning.

Horse head crest with the motto for the  16th Field Artillery Regiment, "Go Forth with Strength."

Red patch with gold lightening bolt 

E-mail if you can interpret meaning.

Q:  I am extremely interested in your Schumann research.  Dad was in the Air Force and stationed at Rhein-Main Air Force Base in Frankfurt, Germany, in late 1947.   Mom was already expecting me and sailed by boat to Europe to join him in early 1948.  She was only 21, an only child, had never been outside the South, and was truly pampered.  After I was born, Dad was able to secure a very lovely three-story home which was much too big for just a wife and new baby.  There was a tremendous housing shortage at that time, and the German government paid anyone who would allow German citizens to live with them.  In turn, the citizens helped out in the household.  That worked out beautifully for my Mother who was completely out of her element.  As time went on, Dad decided to build a garage with additional housing over the garage.  Upon digging the foundation for the garage, a large crate of china was discovered.  Among the items in the crate was Schumann china, as well as some that looked like Schumann but with different markings.  My question is, do you recognize the look-alike china?  Unfortunately, there is very little left of what was found in the crate.  We continued to be transferred for the next 18 years, including a second tour of duty in Bittburg, Germany (1955-1958).  Many pieces were damaged or lost in moves, but the biggest devastation happened when we were in Anchorage, Alaska, and the Big Earthquake hit on Good Friday, 1964.  I've had a very interesting life, and the family was always able to be with Dad wherever he was stationed.   I currently live in Atlanta, Georgia, my parents home before and after the service.   A.A., Atlanta, Georgia, USA

A:  Your story is so very interesting and thank you for sharing it.  Both of your pieces are decorated with a version of the famous Dresden Flowers, which were used by various  factories for decorating their china, but each with its own pattern name.  The Schumann plate you have is what came to be called Dresden Line, similar to Chateau Dresden.  Both of these Schumann patterns have reticulated (pierced) rims, but the difference is in the decoration -- the Chateau rims are much more highly decorated with the flowers.  The Dresden Line rims have more white, as does yours, because of less flower decoration.  The look-alike china, also decorated with a version of the Dresden Flowers, is from Oscar Schaller & Co. of Kirchenlamitz, Bavaria, Germany, in business 1921 to the present day as part of the Winterling Group.  The exact name Schaller may have given this pattern, I don't know.  I think you already know that the Schumann mark dates back to 1924 and into the 1930's.  Certainly, they are all pre-war, based not only on the marks, but the fact that your Dad found them buried in Bavaria.  That was done by the original owners to protect them during the war.  Thanks again for sharing.

Q:  I have a figurine I purchased and was trying to find out the maker.  Can you help?  Your listing of marks is very helpful, and you have my permission to add this one.

A:  Your statue was made by the New York & Rudolstadt Pottery Company of Rudolstadt, Thuringia, Germany, in business c.1882-1918.  Your particular mark was registered May 2, 1896, in the German Trademark of Registry.  The factory was owned by L. Straus & Sons in New York who were U. S. importers. 

So, your statue was made sometime between the years of 1896-1918.  Thanks for sharing.

Q:  First, thank you for such a great website!!  Second, I have been trying to find out more about this plate I inherited.  I don't know where it originally came from, but remember it always being around.  My Grandmother came from England to the U.S. in 1923 with my Mother who was 3 at the time.  She lived for years in Brooklyn, New York, and worked in both Brooklyn and Manhattan.  This plate may have been included in some of the things she bought from her employer who downsized and offered  his employees the opportunity to purchase.  It is 10 1/2" diameter and pierced on the back for hanging.  I plan to hang it back on the wall for the next generation to inherit.  In the meantime, thanks for any information you may be able to give me.  I visit your website often and thought I'd take a chance on e-mailing you about this.  J.K., Indianapolis, Indiana, USA

A:  So glad you decided to e-mail me about this gorgeous plate.  It was hand painted by a listed Limoges artist, J. Soustre, whose name I found on page 456 of Gaston's Third Edition book on Limoges.   Gaston's book shows an example of Soustre's work on a whiteware blank produced by Haviland, 1888-1896.  Your plate is a whiteware blank produced by a Limoges factory after 1891.  As to exactly when Soustre did his/her work is not known.  The whiteware blanks could have been in existence years before they were decorated.  Since Soustre obviously used whiteware blanks from more than one source, he/she was most likely an independent artist who worked for several factories and studios.  According to Gaston, these details are just not known about most of those artists.  The other mark, A. Gottlieb, New York, may have been a department store in New York City, or at the very least an importer or distributor of some kind.  I find no references so far on that name.  Will update this listing if any other information surfaces.  You are doing the right thing to hang it back on the wall for the next generation.  Thanks for sharing it with us. 

Q:  Good morning.  You have a wonderful and very informative website, but I find no mention of Edgerton.  My Dad bought this plate from a couple in the 1960's.  The Schumann mark appears to be 1918.   Is that correct?  Was Edgerton the importer or the decorator?  I've bookmarked your site and have learned what to look for on Schumann pieces.  Many thanks for your help.  A.B., Steeleville, Illinois, USA

A:   That would be the decorator.  As soon as I saw your pictures, I recognized the plate to be Pickard, so I went to my Pickard book immediately.  Sure enough, the Edgerton mark is one of the decorating marks used by Pickard China, a decorating studio in Chicago, Illinois.  Your particular mark is dated 1928-38.  Pickard was known for his beautiful etched gold designs.  He was originally from Edgerton, Wisconsin, and had connections with The Edgerton Art Studio which eventually closed shop.  The name Edgerton went with him as one of his trademarks when he established himself in Chicago.  Pickard imported china blanks for decorating, but mostly Limoges blanks (according to the Pickard book noted below).  It is interesting to see that yours is German whiteware since it is from the Schumann factory of Arzberg, Germany.   You are correct that the Schumann mark dates back to c.1918.   Schumann closed its factory in 1994, but Pickard is still in existence today in Illinois.  Here's a link to current information about Pickard:

 http://www.pickardchina.com/About_us.htm

My source for the Pickard/Edgerton information is Collector's Encyclopedia of Pickard China by Alan B. Reed, page 12. 

This serves as evidence that this particular old blue Schumann mark was used on whiteware (undecorated blanks) exported from Germany to America in the early decades of the 20th century.

Q:  I have a set of Limoges china that I believe to be very old.  It is a place service for 12 with all the serving pieces.  I would appreciate it if you could help me with some information on this particular pattern and age.  There is no pattern number or any information except the emblems on the bottom of all the pieces.  All the websites I've gone to ask for a pattern number or a date line in order to find where they might start to look.  Do you have any information on my set?  Thanks for all your help and support.  Jules

A:  The set is beautiful and you are correct that it is very old.  The marks are for W.G.&Co. (William Guerin & Co.), Limoges, France, and are dated c.1900-1932.  The dark mark is a factory whiteware mark for Guerin.  The red mark is their own decorating mark.  What that means is your set was manufactured by and also factory decorated by Guerin somewhere in those years of 1900-1932.  I've just looked through the Guerin section of Gaston's Limoges book and didn't find a picture of your exact pattern, nor did I see pattern names for those that are pictured.  Chances are, your set was never given a pattern name. 

My source for the dating of the marks is Collector's Encyclopedia of LImoges Porcelain, Third Edition, by Mary Frank Gaston, page 134.

Q:  My inlaws gave me three pieces they say are over 40 years old -- one bowl and two candlesticks.  They may have been purchased as a set of three pieces.  Can you help me determine if they are truly Dresden porcelain?  I would be grateful for your help.  R. & S.K., Petaluma, California, USA.

A:  I do believe the marks are genuine and that the pieces are from the Von Schierholz Porcelain Factory of Plaue, Thuringia, Germany.  What you've been told that they are over 40 years old agrees with the dating of the mark as being 1951-1972.   (Source:  Marks on Germany, Bohemian, and Austrian Porcelain by Rontgen, page 88). 

Q:  We have some 7" reticulated dessert plates with marks that so far no one has been able to identify.  Would you please take a look to see if they ring a bell.  D.B., Fayetteville, Texas, USA

A:  I wish  I could say that they do ring a bell, but they don't other than being somewhat similar, but not the same, as others I've seen.  They are obviously German.  The RL mark is most likely from an old decorating studio in Dresden, Saxony, Germany.*  The Saxonia mark is probably from the porcelain factory that produced the whiteware.   I've checked several good books on marks, as well as on Dresden, and nothing.  It's possible they were small, independent operations and just never documented in current reference books.   As we agreed, I'm posting your pictures with the hope that someone out there might be able to identify them and e-mail me.  If so, I will add an update to this posting.

*Dresden is a city in Germany and Saxony is a state.  Here is a link to some historical information about that part of the world:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxony

Q:  We have a piece of china that has been in the family for 50 years.  I can remember being told it was Dresden.  However, I cannot identify it with any Dresden marks I have seen on the internet.  My Grandmother was given the piece by a family friend for helping to nurse her through a long illness.  The family friend had been given the piece by a brother who had brought it back from Germany.  One account says that he was a soldier in the 1914-18 World War I.  I don't know if this is true.  My Grandmother was born in 1885, and she and her friend would have been in their early thirties in 1918, so it is possible.  I would appreciate any information you can give me.  J., Lancashire, United Kingdom

A:  Although it is of German origin, what you have would not be called Dresden.   It is from the Hertwig & Co. Porcelain Factory of Katzhutte, Thuringia, Germany.  Among other things, they were known for making figurines and dolls.  The mark is dated c.1914-1958, so that appears to agree with the history of the piece as you have been told.  As to what the O in the mark means, I don't know.

My source is "Marks on German, Bohemian, and Austrian Porcelain" by Robert Rontgen, pages 49 and 426.

Q:  I'm wondering if you can help me with a porcelain tea or coffee or chocolate set -- I'm not sure what to call it (unfortunately, there are no cups and saucers or any other pieces).  I know it came from Germany around the 1880's because it was my great grandmother's wedding present.  They immigrated to Canada where my grandmother was born in 1885.  According to my grandmother, they brought this set with them , as well as a few other items, including an old leather-bound German Bible.  There are no markings on the pieces that I can find.  I have been looking all over the net for something similar, but can't seem to find it.  Thank you in advance for your help.  K.S.K., Rochester, New York, USA

A:  What you have is generally referred to as "Old Nippon" which means it is of Japanese origin prior to 1921 -- Nippon is another word for Japan.  Based on your family history, your particular set was obviously manufactured well before (pre-1891) what came to be known as the "Nippon Era" which were the years 1891-1921.  Beginning in 1891 (in compliance with the McKinley Tariff Act which required that countries of origin be marked on items coming into the USA), "Nippon" was marked on items exported from Japan for the U.S. market. The "Nippon Era" ended in 1921 when the U.S. government decided that "Japan" was the English equivalent of the Japanese word "Nippon" and that all items henceforth coming into the U.S. from there should be marked "Japan."  It should be noted that many unmarked items still made their way into the U.S. for various reasons; for example (1) not all pieces in a set were necessarily marked because of the labor costs involved in marking each and every piece; and (2) many unmarked items were brought in through private means such as your great grandparents having moved from Europe to Canada and then the items being passed down to family members in the USA. 

Your set, however, was unmarked because we know it already existed prior to the marking requirements.  Your family history agrees with the history of Nippon/Japan's opening up of trade with the rest of the world.  It appears that they were exhibiting their porcelain wares as early as 1862 in London, 1876 in Philadelphia, and 1878 in Paris.  Thus, your great grandparents' wedding gift most likely found its way to them in Germany by way of London or Paris or similar routes. 

What you have is a wonderful family treasure and you should document in writing as much as you can about its origin as well as any other family history of which you have knowledge.  Be sure to sign and date your own documentation.  Thanks for sharing your family history about this beautiful set.  

Old Nippon mixed set with hand painted Florals and applied gold decoration

Chocolate Pot

Teapot

Sugar and Creamer

For more indepth information about Nippon, refer to Joan F. Van Patten's series of books entitled Collector's Encylopedia of Nippon Porcelain.  Her books and many others can be found on www.collectorbooks.com.

Q:  I have a beautiful ES Prussia plate that I am trying to identify the mark and age.  Anything you can do to help would be appreciated.  I just couldn't pass it up at an antique store recently, even with a tiny chip on the rim.  Does the chip devalue it?   I love anything with pink roses and this is a beauty for sure!!  S.B., Camden, Michigan, USA

A:  I agree -- what a beautiful plate!!  Roses are my favorite also.  This PROV SXE mark is dated to the 1920's and is from the Erdmann Schlegelmilch factory of Suhl, Thuringia, Germany (Source:  Collector's Encyclopedia of R. S. Prussia by Mary Frank Gaston, page 215).  Yes, the chip devalues it considerably, but since you "bought it right" (as we discussed through additional e-mails), you have room for a professional repair if you wish.  Otherwise, you can just display the plate in such a way in your cabinet that the tiny chip would not be noticeable. 

Q:  I just bought this set of Victoria Austria covered bowls and saucers from an estate sale and need to know more about them.   I figured you would be the person to ask.  The mark on the back reads Victoria Carlsbad Austria.  Some of the pictures have a signature; i.e., Ferrier and Berger.  There are four different Napoleon pictures and scenes between the 8 bowls and saucers.   I haven't been able to find anything like them on the internet and don't even really know what to call them.  Any ideas?  C.M., Virginia, USA

A:  What you have are covered bouillon cups.  If taller and slimmer, they would be covered chocolate cups.  You have confirmed for me through additional e-mails that the pictures and scenes are all in transfer, rather than hand painted, as I suspected, in which case the signatures are reproduced also.  The mark is dated 1891-1918 and is from the Victoria Porcelain Factory of  Altrohlau, Bohemia (now Czechoslovakia), in business c.1883-1945 under the ownership of Schmidt & Co.  (Sources:  Page 59 of Kovel's; and page 17 of Directory of European Porcelain by Danckert).

See our Glossary under Altrohlau, Bohemia, and Czech Republic for some historical information about this region.

I also have come up with nothing in searches for similar items.

I'm asking anyone else out there who might have additional information or have found anything comparable to these, to please e-mail  me.  I will credit you accordingly in an update to this posting. 

According to the resources, this mark is believed to be the oldest one used by this factory.

Q:  I viewed your website looking for information on an item that has the "Bavaria Schumann" mark in gold print.  It is a green, almost triangular, pendant.  I don't find anything like this made by Schumann.  My daughter thought it might be the inside of a bell ringer.  It was found in my mother's jewelry box.  I know she had an older friend who moved here from Germany before the War (WW II).  Can you enlighten me?  M.J.S., Northern Illinois, USA

A:  I've not seen anything like this.  Notice the worn and soiled edges on the backside where something was attached to it at one time, perhaps a metal trim.  The shape of it and the hole in the top for a hook or screw reminds me of crystal prisms that hang from chandeliers or lamps.  It is a real puzzle.  As we have agreed through additional e-mails, I'm posting it here with the hope that someone out there will recognize what it  is and e-mail me.  I'll update this posting with any additional information that might surface.

Update:  April 26, 2006

Q:  I have two Schumann porcelain brooches that my father obtained in Germany at the end of World War II.  They appear to be hand painted and are marked on the back with Schumann Porzellan.  Do you know anything about these?  I have tried in vain to get information.  Many thanks.  D.S., Columbia, South Carolina, USA

A:  This is the first confirmation I've had that Schumann produced porcelain jewelry.  In studying your pictures, I think the brooches might be a combination of a transfer pattern with the color added by hand, though I'm not certain without being able to see them in person.  The Schumann mark is one that goes back to the 1920's and earlier.  It is fortunate they survived the war.  One other person has e-mailed me about the "Mystery Item" (shown above) that was found in her mother's jewelry box and thought it might have been a pendant.  At the time, I didn't believe that Schumann made jewelry.  Now I know they did, thanks to you.  Thanks for sharing your information.

While we still don't know if our "Mystery Item" above is jewelry or something else, we do at least now know that the possibility exists.

Update:  September 28, 2006

Q:  I was searching the internet for information about a porcelain pendant I bought at an estate sale and came across the question and your answer regarding the green "pendant" of the same shape as mine.  My pendant, however, is blue with a blue flower on it.  It also appears to have the same mark (mine is Gold).  It's also on a black velvet cord that I believe was added later.  It's beautiful, and I wear it all the time.  Hope this information helps to solve the "Mystery Schumann Item."  I do think these were made to be a pendants.  Barbie in California, USA

A:  What great documentation you have and thanks for sharing it with us.  It does appear that our mystery item really is a pendant, as originally believed by the owner, MJS in Illinois.  Since other Schumann jewelry has since surfaced, and since yours and the green one are exactly alike other than the colors, it is reasonable to assume that the mystery is now solved and that they really are pendants.  Thanks for all your help!!

We continue to invite others to send us pictures of Schumann jewelry.  Please include as much background information as possible.

April 26, 2006, Update

September 28, 2006, Update

Q:  My parents received this tea set as a wedding gift in France in 1947.  My mother thought it was Limoges, but it doesn't appear to have Limoges markings.  There is a large "M S" embossed into the bottom of each piece with the word FRANCE appearing just below it.  There are also handwritten words "Decor main" which I know means "decorated by hand" or hand painted.  One of the pieces has the artist's name (at least, I think it's the artist's name).  The set contains teapot, sugar, creamer, and 10 cups and saucers.  The pieces have never been used.  Can you help me identify the manufacturer?  J.E., Windsor, Ontario, Canada

A:  Thanks for your interesting story and beautiful pictures.  I agree that the name is an artist's signature.  I've checked several books on marks for an M S in France, but find nothing.  With your permission, I am posting your pictures in the event someone out there might recognize your set and e-mail me.  If so, I will post updates to this section as appropriate. 

Q:  I am trying to identify this plate and approximate age.  Any help is appreciated.  Thank you!!!  L. in New York.

A:  The style of your plate is compatible with the styles of the 1920's and is of American origin.  The mark is for Dresden Pottery of East Liverpool, Ohio, and was used c.1905-1925.  The company used this mark while under the management of The Potters Cooperative which was founded in 1882 and lasted until 1925.  This is the last mark shown for Dresden Pottery.  The factory was originally founded in 1875 by Brunt, Bloor, and Martin.  (Source:  Lehner's Encyclopedia of U. S. Marks on Pottery, Porcelain, and Clay by Lois Lehner, page 60.)

Q:  I am trying to find out for a friend about this beautiful chocolate set that was her Mother's.  She herself is 80 years old and remembers it being in the house always and believes it was a wedding gift to her parents in 1920.   It consists of a chocolate pot, 5 cups and saucers, 6 dessert plates, and two nut dishes.  All are in perfect condition.  She may be interested in selling it, and I told her I would try to find out about it on the internet.  Thank you.   L.D., Mesquite, Nevada, for AH, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA (She lives in Nevada in the summer and in Vermont in the winter, as do I.)

A:  The only Royal Munich I've ever had  is the one portrait plate, Item #2085, which I sold almost as soon as I posted it.  Then and now, I've not been able to identify Royal Munich  -- of all the books I have, there is no mention of Royal Munich at all that I can find.  The best I can determine is that Royal Munich must have been a decorating studio, possibly in the general area of Germany that produced the popular R. S. Prussia and related products.  Mary Frank Gaston's book on R. S. Prussia featuring R.S., E.S.,O.S., and C.S., Fourth Series, has a whole section on "Royal" marks such as Royal Vienna, Royal Berlin, Royal Coburg, Royal Frankfort, Royal Tillowitz, etc., which were apparently decorating marks.  Royal Munich is possibly in that same category and just not documented.

The other mark is that of Zeh, Scherzer & Co., of Rehau, Bavaria, Germany, and is shown in Kovel's Dictionary of Marks, page 225, as first used in c.1880.  It appears that this chocolate set was manufactured by Z. S. & Co., (NOT by an RS Prussia factory) and then decorated by Royal Munich which was apparently a decorating studio.  Marseille appears to be the name of the design of the mold.  Refer to my December 3, 2004, posting below for a beautiful plate with the same Z.S. mark and appears to be very similar except for the decoration.

Since your friend's parents were married in 1920 and received this set as a wedding gift, it would probably be safe to assume that it was probably "new" at that time, as in "not yet used."   So, saying that it is c.1920 or possibly older would be safe.  If gifted in 1920, it would have actually been manufactured and decorated a few years prior to that, possibly even before WW I and just not marketed until after the war was over.  It would also have needed time to make its way to the U.S. and into the hands of the retailer, assuming it was purchased in this country.  Thank you for allowing me to post your pictures and information.  Hand painted items are very desirable and I know others will enjoy seeing this beautiful set.

Q:  I have an oval bowl with a mark  I can't locate.   It's a circle in red with Germany around the inside edge and the number 83 in the center.  The bowl also has a large diamond shape formed on the bottom.  Can you help me identify the maker?  This was my great grandmother's bowl, and I'm trying to find the history.  My great grandmother was born in the mid-1800's, and it is my understanding that her parents came over from Germany in the late 1800's and brought this bowl with them.   Thank you for any help you can provide.   K.H., St. Louis, Missouri, USA

A:   Your bowl is beautiful, and through our e-mails you have confirmed that it is hand painted which makes it even more special for you.  Many of the older pieces didn't get marked with the manufacturer's name for some reason, and the circled Germany is not attributed to any particular factory as far as I can find.  Beginning in 1891, the McKinley Tariff Act required that countries of origin be printed on porcelain coming into this country.  According to Kovel's Dictionary of Marks, page 229, Germany is known to have started that practice as early as 1885.  Whether or not the 83 in the center of the German mark on your bowl is for 1883, I don't know.  Thanks for sharing your pictures and information.

  Regarding the diamond design on the bottom, I believe it is nothing more than part of the design of the mold.  I've noticed that many of these very old German bowls have some sort of an inner rim, possibly intended as additional support.

Q:  I am a Dutch woman and collect James Kent Old Foley Chinese Rose.   I have pieces with several different kinds of marks, and I have not an idea which one is the oldest.  Can you  give me more information?  I am interested in the history of it and  hope you can help me.  Beforehand, thanks very much.  I studied your website and I give you my compliments.  It is fantastic.  Greetings from the Netherlands.   I.V., Hoofddorp, Holland

A:  Thanks for finding us here in Texas USA all the way from the Netherlands.  I've studied your pictures and marks.  You have two basic marks  (1) the ones with the globe; and (2) the ones without the globe, with slight variations in each.  Some of the differences I can see in the marks are some variations in the colors and some have the pattern name and some don't.  Sometimes pattern names just didn't get added to each and every piece.  Also, there is some variation in the wording for the country of origin.  I'm showing all of the marks below.

 I have been able to find only one reference with those two basic marks, Kovel's Dictionary of Marks, pages 106 and 195.  Kovel's dates both basic marks as beginning in 1897 and continuing to the present (this book was published in the 1980's).  They are identified as being those of James Kent, Ltd., Stoke, Staffordshire, England.  Where in all those years your dishes would fall, I don't know.  The closest I can say is that the milk pitcher I had by that company (shown here on my website and identical to your milk pitcher shown at left except for decoration) was from the early 1940's -- I know that because we purchased it from a lady who told me she had purchased it in the early 1940's.  Thanks for your permission to post your question and pictures.  If I learn anything else, I'll update this posting. 

Q:   Hi:  I found your website and have since bookmarked it in my favorites because it is so informative.  I have a Dresden candleholder that is marked with the letter S in blue script and then what appears to be the word Dresden below it.  This mark has me stumped.  Another party identified it as a Schumann mark, but I just spent a half hour going through your website and did not find it.  Can you help?  Thanks so much.   P.M., Sudbury, Massachusetts, USA

A:  Your candleholder is beautiful and no doubt hand painted.  The mark is actually an intertwined S and P, and your pictures confirmed what I already knew from your description -- that the mark you described is that of the Carl Thieme Saxony Porcelain Factory of Potschappel, Saxony, Germany.  There have been others as well who have mistaken this mark for a Schumann mark, which it is not.  Go to this page of my website and scroll down to the S's and you'll see examples of Saxony Porcelain marks that are already on my website:  Fine Porcelain

There is a good book called Dresden Porcelain Studios by the Harrans and published by Collector Books.  It can be found on Amazon.com and possibly at your local book store, as well as on the publisher's website which is www.collectorbooks.com.  This book  has a whole section on Carl Thieme Saxony Porcelain with pictures and suggested values.  While it doesn't have a candleholder similar to yours, it will still give you an idea of price ranges, as well as the quality of items produced by them.  Thanks for allowing me to post your pictures and comments. 

Q:  This plate and another one  like it was given to a friend of mine and her sister in 1979 by their great grandfather.  There is writing on the back of one of the plates, written by the great grandfather in 1979, that says it was 150 years old at that time.  I can't seem to find any information about it.  Can you tell me anything about it?  M.W., Portsmouth, New Hampshire, USA

A:  The mark on the plate is from Schumann & Schreider, a porcelain factory in Schwarzenhammer, Bavaria, Germany, who began business in 1905 and is apparently still in business today according to my reference book.  This mark is shown to have been used after 1905, but exactly when and for how long is unclear.   My source is "Marks on German, Bohemian, and Austrian Porcelain" by Robert Rontgen, pages 110 and 478.  As you can see from this information, the oldest the plate could possibly be would be 100 years as of this year 2005.  You might take another look at the writing and see if it was intended to say 50 years old, instead of 150 years.  50 years old in 1979 would have put it back to 1929, which sounds logical. 

 If anyone else has any information about this particular pattern, please e-mail us.

Q:  I have some Bavaria Schumann Arzberg Germany pieces and I can't seem to find their exact mark anywhere, including your website which is very informational).  I have no information on these pieces except they were my grandmother's.  They were hand painted by Irene H. Marshall, Whittier, California, 1969.  Some have the Schumann mark, and some are unmarked.   Do you know if there was a specific time period when the green Schumann mark was used?  Do you think these were produced around the same time that they were painted by Irene in 1969?  If you have any information about these pieces, I would greatly appreciate it.   C.D., California, USA.

A:  Thank you for sending the beautiful pictures with the wonderful documentation of the china painter.  The green Schumann mark is apparently a whiteware mark for blanks produced for decoration by artists outside the factory.  The unmarked pieces may have been whiteware from other factories besides Schumann.

As to when all the blanks were produced, it was most likely in the early years of the 1960's -- they may have been in storage at the factory for a time before being distributed -- it's hard to know for certain.  It would have taken awhile for the blanks to make their way from Europe to the USA and then into the hands of the china painters, after which it would take time for the painters to produce their finished products as Irene did in 1969. 

Irene was obviously a very talented American china painter.  Quality pieces by American china painters can be very desirable and valuable.  Here are some references for more information about American china painting:

"American Painted Porcelain" by Dorothy Kamm and published by Collector Books in Paducah, Kentucky.

"Antique Limoges at Home" by Debby Dubay, and published by Schiffer Books.

You should be able to find both these books on Amazon.com or on the publishers' websites:

http://www.schifferbooks.com

http://www.collectorbooks.com

Thank you for sharing this information and allowing me to post it.  I am also adding this whiteware mark to my table of Schumann marks and am assuming it is from the 1960's. 

Q:  I have two candelabra that are 21 1/4" tall with a 12" wingspan.  They belonged to my Grandmother who originally came from Budapest, Hungary.  She went often to all areas of Germany and got these on one of her trips back.  They have been carefully packed and stored for many years and only displayed on festive occasions.  They are majestic pieces and are perfect and flawless -- MINT condition!!  There is a mark underneath, but I have no idea who the maker is.  Can you help me?  S.C.H., Celebration, Florida, USA

A:  Your candelabra are beautiful!!  Your Grandmother must have purchased them between the years of 1967 and 1972 or shortly thereafter.  The mark is that of the Von Schierholz Porcelain Manufactory of Plaue, Thuringia, Germany.  The history of the factory goes back to 1817 and this mark is their Jubilee mark (150 years) put into use from 1967 until 1972.  My sources of information are the Kovel's Dictionary of Marks, page 109; and the Directory of European Porcelain by Danckert, page 367.  It is great that these came from your grandmother and that you know as much as you do about their line of ownership.  Thanks for sharing with us. 

Q:  Can you tell me anything about the manufacturer and date of these beautiful plates that my husband inherited?  Thanks.  L.P., Long Island, New York.

A:  Information about Edgewood China is apparently nowhere to be found.   In all the books I have, nothing at all about an Edgewood of any kind.  I've even sent out e-mails to a dealer group that I belong to, and the responses I've received say "never heard of it."  One dealer did suggest that perhaps it may have been a small decorating shop that decorated blanks from various factories.  That sounds reasonable and the best we have at the moment.   I, too, have a plate with that same mark, and my initial feeling about that one, as well as yours, is that they are most likely from the 1950's and of American origin -- just my speculation.  Please check back periodically so see if I have posted an update to this information. 

Update:  August 17, 2005

" I, too, have been hunting for information about Edgewood China with little success.  I did find your website and thought this might be helpful.  I have several of these gold encrusted plates with floral centers that I have been selling for a friend who is cleaning our her family home, but I discovered they have different marks on the backs.  The first ones I sold had the same mark as that pictured on your website (see above).  The others have a different mark (see mark at left) and do not include the name Edgewood.  I'm not sure which mark is the oldest, but at least we know there are two different marks.  These plates actually came from York County, Pennsylvania, from my friend's family, which would date them back to 1920's or 1930's, or even to her grandparents from the early 1900's.  She has no idea who originally had them.  They've been stored away either in the attic or storage shed for years and years."  ALS, York County, Pennsylvania.

Update:  September 19, 2006

" I, too, have an Edgewood China plate.  The marking on the back is similar to the first one posted, although it appears to be gold.  The only thing I know about the plate is that it belonged to my great grandmother who, after immigrating from Poland in the 1890's, lived in Brooklyn for the remainder of her life until 1957."  LIB, New York, New York.

Update:  May 14, 2007

A very nice e-bay seller sent us these pictures which have been very helpful in learning more about Edgewood.  This Homer Laughlin mark is a whiteware mark from the 1920's-30's (Source: Decorative American Pottery Whiteware, page 131, by Jeanie Klamm Wilby).  Notice the gold Edgewood mark, which appears to be a decorating mark.  This supports the suggestion at the beginning of this posting on January 5, 2005, that Edgewood China must have been a small decorating shop that decorated whiteware from various factories, including whiteware from Homer Laughlin China  Company of West Virginia USA.

"Thank you, Ben, for sending these pictures."  Ben's user name on ebay is the-nook.

If anyone out there has information about Edgewood China, please e-mail me.   I will, of course, credit you with the contribution and add it to this posting.

August 17, 2005, Update

September 19, 2006, Update

May 14, 2007, Update

Q:  I would very much appreciate it if you could give me more information about these pieces; i.e., age and name of the pattern, etc.  These are just a few items from the whole collection.  I have realized that each plate has a different collection of flowers on them, although in the same style.  They have been in our possession for more than 30 years.  The tissue paper they are wrapped in is off-white and looks old.  I also see a small symbol in gold under the word Dresden and don't know if this means anything.  There is also an alpha-numeric stamped on the bottom of each piece; C5957S.  Would this be a batch mark or date stamp like a hallmark in gold?   L.H., Bedfordshire County, England.

 A:  What you have is from the Carl Thieme Saxony Porcelain Factory of Potschappel, Saxony, Germany.  Here are links to the Dresden website which has a history of that company as well as a display of the various marks:

http://www.dresden-porcelain.com/history.htm

http://www.dresden-porcelain.com/trademark.htm

The mark on yours appears to be #6, the one put into use from around the turn of the 20th Century.  As you will see, a form of that mark is still in use today.  However, I did find what is basically your exact pattern on page 123 in "Dresden Porcelain Studios" by Jim and Susan Harran and published by Collector Books (www.collectorbooks.com).   I believe this book can also be found on Amazon.com.

Their picture is of a Carl Thieme Saxony Porcelain hand painted tea cup and saucer, with beautiful florals similar to yours (though not exactly) and the exact same gold design around the rims as yours.  They have dated it as c.1920's and I believe it is safe to say that yours are most likely from that same era -- at least pre-WW II.

As to the exact name of the pattern, I can't tell you other than that the flowers appear to be a version of the popular Dresden Flowers.  Many companies decorated their china with the Dresden Flowers, but there is usually something else as part of the pattern name -- for example, Empress Dresden Flowers, Chateau Dresden Flowers, etc.

You have confirmed for me through our e-mails that yours are also hand painted.  As soon as I saw the mark, I knew they were most likely hand painted.  Hand painted items are always very desirable. 

As to the numbers, the meaning of those seem to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and I've not been able to definitively figure those out on anything I've seen so far.  They could be pattern numbers, lot numbers, batch numbers, even coded year dates -- I just don't know.  The symbol in gold could possibly be the artist's code/i.d. -- again, I don't know. 

Thanks for allowing me to post your question and pictures and for sharing your story. 

Q:  I was wondering if you knew where I could find information about the items in these pictures.  I have a set of six plus Altrohlau tea cups, saucers, plates, and a serving tray.  I also have a cream and sugar set that is painted the same but is by T & V Limoges.  There is another serving piece that is identical in design but is by Moschendorf. 

The Moschendorf piece has Spichen signed on the back.  The two pieces by T & V Limoges have M. A. Gott signed on the back.  All of the pieces by Altrohlau have the initials N.R.G. signed on the back.  None of these match any of my relatives, so I'm not sure who these people were.  These have been in the family for quite some time, and I'm curious about their history.  Thank you for any information.  J.M.L., Gobles, Michigan, USA

A:  Thanks for sending the beautiful pictures.  With all the pieces obviously hand painted and decorated the same, yet each with different names on the backs,  these are all whiteware pieces manufactured by various factories and then hand painted by various artists.  Whiteware was/is produced for decoration outside the factory -- usually by decorating studios or independent china painters -- American china painters, for example.

Since none of the signatures match up with any of your family members, then perhaps the pieces were accumulated by a collector who purchased  them from various independent china painters, probably American China Painters, who may or may not have known each other -- we have no way of knowing unless they are listed artists -- I haven't been able to find their names in anything I have.  Whatever the case, they all ended up in the same collection and you are the fortunate one to now have them.

In my opinion, you have some wonderful treasures.  I love hand painted porcelains, especially if they are florals and in the soft pinks and blues as are yours.  We think the flower is probably the Desert Rose.  

Good quality hand-painted china by American china painters is very desirable.  A good book filled with pictures of beautiful hand-painted china, as well as suggested values, is "Antique Limoges at Home" by Debby Dubay, and published by Schiffer.

As to age, the T & V Limoges France mark is a whiteware mark dated to c.1892-1907.  T & V is for Tresseman and Vogt who were Limoges decorators and exporters.  My source is Mary Frank Gaston's book "Collector's Encyclopedia of Limoges Porcelain, Third Edition", pages 288 and 293.

The MZ Altrohlau CM-R mark is dated to 1920-38.   MZ is for Moritz Zdekauer, a banker, who took over a stoneware factory in Altrohlau, Bohemia, in 1884.  The same factory was then acquired in 1909 by C. M. Hutschenreuther, after which it was officially called Altrohlauer Porcelain Factory.  My source for this is "Directory of European Porcelain" by Danckert, pages 15 and 16.

I noticed on the MZ mark that there is a black curve.  I believe that beneath that black curve you would find "Czechoslovakia" which someone chose to black out.  Covering up a word or a mark was not an uncommon occurrence on whiteware.  However, in this particular case, it probably had something to do with the back and forth history of that part of the world.

The PM Moschendorf Bavaria mark is that of the Moschendorf Porcelain Factory who was in business 1878 until c.1945.  The closest I can come to dating this particular mark is c.1904-1938.  My source is "Marks on German, Bohemian, and Austrian Porcelain" by Robert Rontgen, pages 93 and 419.

An additional book for more information on hand painted porcelains is "American Painted Porcelain" by Dorothy Kamm and published by Collector Books in Paducah, Kentucky.

You can probably find all of the above books on Amazon.com or on the publishers' websites:

http://www.schifferbooks.com

http://www.collectorbooks.com

Hope this is helpful.  Thanks for allowing me to post your pictures and questions.

According to page 71 of Gaston's book, George Borgfeldt was a New York importer with art studios in Europe, including one in Paris.  The studio artists decorated whiteware (undecorated blanks) produced by Limoges factories and used a combination of transfer designs and hand painting.  Your boat scene is apparently one of the transfer designs that was then hand painted by Duval and signed by him/her. 

You have a wonderful family treasure.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

Q:  I have a plate, 10" diameter, with scalloped edge.  It is a sailboat with three passengers, green sea, yellow sky, and signed Duval.  The plate has been framed for years.  However, notes on the back of frame indicate Limoges, and in my Grandmother's writing to her daughter, my Aunt, "My prize possession -- this plate John Bratcher gave me when you were a little girl."  Aunt Wilma was born in 1911.  Any value?  G.H., Ford County, Illinois, USA

A:  Your plate definitely has value.  Duval is a listed Limoges artist, and I found a plate exactly like yours on page 83 of Mary Frank Gaston's Third Edition book on Limoges Porcelain.  If it weren't for the picture showing it sitting on a plate stand (not framed as yours is), I would think it was the exact same plate.  The one in the book has the Borgfeldt Mark that is dated 1906-1920 which agrees with your family history of 1911 or thereabouts when the plate was gifted.   Decorated wares from the Borgfeldt studios, including those decorated and signed by Duval, are apparently quite popular.  The one likes yours is shown in the Gaston book in the $325 to $375 range (the book was published in 2000).  With the added family history you have, especially the hand written note on the backside, that would certainly add some to the value.  If I were you, I would attach an additional note to the back  (dated and signed by you) saying that your Aunt Wilma was born in 1911 since that piece of information is what narrows down the date as to when it was gifted.  Prices shown in books are intended to give suggested ranges at the time of printing, and no guarantees are given that those prices would be the ones actually realized in the market place.  Market prices have many variables causing the prices to possibly be higher or lower than expected.  You can find the Gaston book on www.amazon.com and also on www.collectorbooks.com. 

Q:  Hello.  Thank you for a great website!!!!  I've been researching this beautiful set of Schumann China (Bavaria) and am very interested in any history you may have on this.  My husband just inherited this set, and we will keep it as a family heirloom and would like to pass any information on to our kids.  His father was in the Air Force in Germany from 1950 to 1953, and we occasionally tour in Germany, so we have some sentimental ties to the history of this beautiful set.  Thank you for any help you may offer and for your dedication.  Anonymous by preference.

A:  Thank you for your nice e-mail and comments about our website.  Your beautiful set is yet another Schumann pattern I've not seen until now.  It's nice that yours has the pattern name "Bouquet" on it -- so many of them, especially the older pieces, weren't identified at the time of manufacture, or perhaps just not named at all (I'm not sure which).  As to some history, your set was made by the Carl Schumann Porcelain Factory in Arzberg, Bavaria, Germany, in business 1881-1994.  The US Zone part of the mark and the fact that those words are in the same style and color as the rest of the mark (except for Bouquet) make it easy to pinpoint the date of manufacture as being sometime between 1945-49, the years the United States occupied a portion of Germany just after World War II.  Notice that "Bouquet" is different from the rest of the mark and looks like it was applied with a stamp at a later time -- probably at the time of decoration by either the Schumann factory or possibly by an outside decorating studio.  Green marks are sometimes an indication of whiteware (undecorated blanks) produced for decoration outside the factory.  It's also possible that the factory just stored the blanks for a short time and then decorated them in-house after they decided on a pattern.  All this is just my speculation.  You have since told me that "Bouquet" is stamped on only two of the pieces which helps to confirm my theory of after-the-fact decoration and naming of the patterns.  Thanks for telling me that and for allowing me to add your pictures to my Schumann table of patterns and marks. 

Q:  Do you recognize this mark?  I've exhausted all of my good books on marks and looked on the net and no luck so far.  Many thanks!!  D.W., Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, USA

A:  This appears to be from the J. Tieles Porcelain Factory of Paris.  The triangle mark is shown on page 355 of the Directory of European Porcelain by Danckert.  There is, however, no date and no other information included about the factory in this book or any other books that I have.  I haven't been able to find the top mark at all.  If I learn anything else, I'll update this posting. 

  If anyone else out there has information, please e-mail.

Q:  I have two sets of china my Dad brought back from Germany back in the 1940's, and I'm trying to find out something about them and who made them.   He told me he purchased them directly from the factory in 1946 for his mother and paid $80 back then.  While my father was in Germany, he managed the Palace Hotel and was therefore able to get directly into the factory to purchase the dishes.  They were purchased new, but the design was possibly one of the older styles they had.  The color of the mark is green.  G.D. of Wadsworth, Illinois, USA

A:  What you have is another one of the many patterns produced by the Carl Schumann Porcelain Factory that operated in Arzberg, Bavaria, Germany, 1881-1994.  Unfortunately, the names of many of the patterns are unknown due to records that were destroyed in two world wars.  It's also possible that some of them were never officially named.  Even though your father purchased them new in 1946, I believe, based on the mark, they may have actually been manufactured much earlier and just not put on the market until after the war.  They were probably safely stored away during the war years.  Thanks for allowing me to add your pictures to my table of patterns and marks for the Schumann factory.

Q:  I recently inherited from my grandmother this pair of Von Schierholz candelabra and haven't been able to find much information on them.  Do you have any idea as to how old they are?  They are 22 inches tall and in flawless condition with no chips, cracks, or scratches at all.  A.G., Bethesda, Maryland, USA

A:  Your candelabra are beautiful and were obviously well-cared for through the years from the way you have described them.  They were made by C. G. Schierholz & Sons of Plaue, Thuringia, Germany.  The markings are most like the ones shown in reference books as being used between the years of 1914-1930's (Source:  Dresden Porcelain Studios by Harrans, page 180).  The word Handmalerei is German for hand painted.  You have a wonderful family treasure from your grandmother.  Thanks for finding us and sharing your pictures. 

Q:  I was just wondering if you had ever come across a plate like this one.  Do you know anything about it and its year of manufacture?  I found it at a garage sale.  It is 6 3/4" diameter and in excellent condition with no chips, cracks, crazing, or repairs.  The Orchids are transfers, not hand painted.  Thanks.  J.D. of Springfield, Missouri, USA

A:  Your plate is beautiful.  No, I haven't seen one exactly like this one.  The mark is that of Zeh, Scherzer & Co., of Rehau, Bavaria, Germany.  Reference books show this green underglaze mark as being used as early as 1880, but no ending date is given.  Whether or not your plate goes back that far, there is no way to know.  My guess is that it easily goes back to at least the very early part of the 20th Century.  My sources for the dates are page 195 of Kovel's and page 292 of Rontgen's.  Thanks for sharing your pictures with us. 

May 3, 2005 Update:  At this point, it appears that  Marseille is the name of the design of the mold.  Refer to my May 3 posting above for the Royal Munich Chocolate set.  Same Z.S. mark and similar shaped mold, but different decoration. 

Q:  Why is the mark on my Schumann plate different from those shown on your site?  Ignez, Key Biscayne, Florida, USA

A:  Products produced by the Carl Schumann Porcelain Factory of Arzberg, Bavaria, Germany (1881-1994) have quite an assortment of marks, including the Royal Dresdner Art mark that you have on your plate (notice the cursive Carl Schumann name as part of the mark).  This mark is shown in the reference books as being for the Schumann China Corporation of New York City which served as the U. S. distributor of Carl Schumann products between the years of 1931-1941.  My reference source is Rontgen's Marks on German, Bohemian, and Austrian Porcelain, pages 171 and 456.  Click here for more Schumann information and to view my table of marks and patterns.  With your permission, I am adding this plate and mark to my Schumann table.  Thanks for finding us.

Q:  I hope you can help me, as you're one of the very few I've seen on the internet who have Von Schierholz.  I have two small Von Schierholz swans and one large swan, all with painted roses on their wings.  I've tried almost everywhere and found Von Schierholz, but never these swans.  Can you tell me if these appear to be authentic and can you tell me more about them?  They've been passed down in my family from my great grandmother who lived from 1899 to 1990.  She lived all of her adult life in San Francisco and to my knowledge didn't travel much.  We speculate she purchased them in San Francisco or perhaps by mail order.  K.J., Apple Valley, Southern California, USA.

A:  Yours are the first Schierholz swans I've ever seen like this.  I've just spent some time flipping through several of my books and find nothing like them.  The marks do look authentic and are like those Schierholz marks used 1914-1930's according to various references.  I'm keeping your e-mails and posting this information hoping that someone out there might recognize them and e-mail me with more information.  Please check back periodically for any updates which will be posted here.  Thanks for finding us.

Q:  My mother-in-law left me an eight place setting of dinnerware.  The mark on the bottom of the pieces has the Elite Works Limoges France green mark.  The other stamp is red.  She said that her father bought these in Massachusetts in probably the early 1920's.  Thanks for any help in identifying these.  P. (location unknown).

A:  The marks are those of Bawo & Dotter of New York who were importers beginning in the 1860's and by the 1870's had established their own decorating studio called Elite Works.  They decorated whiteware made by other factories.  By the 1890's, they were doing their own manufacturing as well as decorating.  The green mark is a manufacturing whiteware mark dated c.1920-1932.  The red mark is a decorating mark dated c.1900-1914.  Those general dates agree with what you know of the history of your china as probably having been purchased in the early 1920's.  Since your china has both of these marks, it appears that the green mark was probably used earlier than 1920 or perhaps the red mark used later than 1914 since the manufacturing would have come first and then the decorating after that.  My source of information is Mary Frank Gaston's Third Edition book on Limoges Porcelain.  In fact, her book has a picture of your exact pattern on page 54 and shows a cup and saucer that is priced at $55 to $65.  You can find her books on Amazon and also possibly in your local library or books stores, as well as on her publisher's website which is www.collectorbooks.com  For prices on other pieces in your set, try searching using the key words Bawo and Dotter, and you'll come up with quite a list of resources.  Hope this information is helpful to you.

Q:  I found your website and hope to learn something about these vases which belonged to my aunt.  She was born in 1921 and served as a nurse in World War II.  She requested overseas duty and was stationed in Naples, Italy.  At the war's end, she was killed during a riot.  When her remains were shipped home to the states, her belongings were packed up and sent as well.  These vases were among them.  We assume she purchased them while stationed in Italy between 1945-1946.  They have a marking on the bottom which appears to be CF and then underneath that VII.  Thanks for any help.  C.P., Ozark Mountains Region, USA.

A:  Your beautiful pair of vases appear to be from Christian Fischer who operated a factory in Pirkenhammer, Bohemia.  The incised CF mark is one used 1846-57, according to pages 365 and 366 of the Directory of European Porcelain by Ludwig Danckert.  For more information about the Pirkenhammer factory, go to www.pirken-hammer.com where you'll find links to their hallmarks and history.  Thank you for being willing to share your beloved aunt's story with us and allowing us to post it.

Q:  I have been given two decorative plates with pictures of small cherubs which are not hand painted, but are transfers.  On the back are markings with the words Victoria Carlsbad Austria.  Are these reproductions?  Can you date them approximately?  A.L., Ballycastle, Co. Antrim, N. Ireland.

A:  That appears to be a good mark from the Victoria Porcelain Factory of Altrohlau, Austria, and dates to 1891-1918 (Source:  Page 59 of Kovel's and page 17 of Dictionary of European Porcelain).

See our Glossary under Altrohlau, Bohemia, and Czech Republic for some historical information about this region.

 It's a beautiful plate.  Cherubs are always quite popular, even if not hand painted.  Everything I've had with cherubs has sold almost immediately.  Thanks for finding us all the way from Ireland.